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Guild: Antares Development Initiative
Channel: Channel Archive / wkp-operations
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[20-Jun-24 01:28 PM] jvaler#0000
news for @WKP:
the finances sheet is functional now, so y'all can get an idea of how much you will owe.
once you get ready to pay back the loan it will be up to you to keep track of how much you have repaid and how much you still owe. you will use the checkboxes in the "Data Input" tab to mark off what you've paid. note that we currently do not have a concrete price for SSC yet, so make sure not to pay that back yet.
i have posted the sheet link in #wkp-information


[20-Jun-24 01:29 PM] jvaler#0000
i totally didn't just modify my personal debt sheet for this :P


[20-Jun-24 01:29 PM] igfloz#0000
Awesome Sauce !


[20-Jun-24 01:44 PM] jvaler#0000
oops i forgot to allow edits


[20-Jun-24 01:44 PM] jvaler#0000
should be good now


[20-Jun-24 01:45 PM] .shiva.#0000
Thanks for setting it up. I should've waited on LHP lol, oh well


[20-Jun-24 01:46 PM] jvaler#0000
nono you just made it slightly easier for us lol


[20-Jun-24 01:54 PM] akyantor#0000
How will we send the money over? 1 RAT contracts to you?


[20-Jun-24 01:57 PM] jvaler#0000
like this
fulfill, then just terminate the contract

{Attachments}
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[20-Jun-24 01:58 PM] jvaler#0000
or you could just do a cont for 1 SF


[20-Jun-24 01:58 PM] jvaler#0000
doesn't really matter


[20-Jun-24 01:58 PM] jvaler#0000
idk why RAT is the standard though, people are more likely to keep SF on ANT. plus it's cheaper

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[20-Jun-24 01:59 PM] akyantor#0000
That's fine. Thanks.


[20-Jun-24 02:19 PM] .shiva.#0000
Rat is the default item when you make a contract im pretty sure


[20-Jun-24 02:21 PM] flor2081#0000
honestly putting it to the core module is just too much work


[20-Jun-24 02:21 PM] flor2081#0000
I really never mind if I have to pay that one SF/RAT to make the cont go away immediately

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[20-Jun-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
SF > RAT

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👍 💯 

[20-Jun-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
at the end of the day i don't really care :P


[20-Jun-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
i just don't personally stockpile RAT so i'd have to CXPO it


[20-Jun-24 06:02 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I've got a little bit of LHP headed for ANT, more on Vulcan. Where are we selling these? ANT? or Deimos?


[20-Jun-24 06:04 PM] jvaler#0000
i was gonna keep it all on ANT, then i can either take it to hephaestus or let them ship it themselves

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[20-Jun-24 06:04 PM] jvaler#0000
cause heph WAR isn't big enough to keep *everything*, but it can keep a couple kits


[20-Jun-24 06:04 PM] jvaler#0000
and my base STO are pretty full there


[20-Jun-24 06:09 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Deimos is a fairly bit warehouse and it has a shipyard. Vulcan also has big warehouse and I could build a shipyard if desired...


[20-Jun-24 06:10 PM] jvaler#0000
no don't build a 3rd shipyard right next to ANT 😭


[20-Jun-24 06:11 PM] jvaler#0000
wait no 4th, nike


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
wait wat? I didn't even realize Nike had one


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
and I was just joking


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
governors in KAWA have been building Shipyards everywhere lately and I'm like... why?


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] jvaler#0000
lmfao


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
that said...


[20-Jun-24 06:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I might build one on Katoa 😆


[20-Jun-24 06:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
cause the only shipyard in the Benten system is on [currently] unpopulated planet...


[20-Jun-24 06:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
(we're about to build it up though)


[20-Jun-24 06:16 PM] jvaler#0000
tf


[20-Jun-24 06:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
yeah idk


[20-Jun-24 06:16 PM] jvaler#0000
that's so weird

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[20-Jun-24 06:17 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
There's one on Proxion, which is close enough and where most people here sell ships


[20-Jun-24 06:17 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
But is just feels like there should be one on Katoa


[20-Jun-24 06:17 PM] jvaler#0000
i guess it has 0 atmo so no extra damage... but also only a single WAR


[20-Jun-24 06:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
for now...

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[20-Jun-24 06:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
(we're about to build ADM, CoGC, warehouses, and set it up as a fuel planet...)


[20-Jun-24 06:18 PM] jvaler#0000
ooh nice


[20-Jun-24 06:19 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Governed by a fellow KAWA member who has voted against me on Katoa CoGC literally every week since they started playing, lol. So I just said "go get your own planet" then helped him build it, lol


[20-Jun-24 06:21 PM] jvaler#0000
i sympathize with wanting to align the fuel starter to fuel... but manufacturing's just too good


[20-Jun-24 06:29 PM] jvaler#0000
oh and it's also it's own starting profession too so... lol

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[20-Jun-24 06:54 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
yeah, I think a fuel CoGC is a trap anyway... if I could ever be convince to vote for another CoGC for the benefit of new players, it would be RE. Katoa is good for fuel because of it's AMM and GAL. Gravy is one of the biggest SF producers in the game and they use Katoa for GAL, Biogenesis for AMM, Umbra for NAB, and make the fuel elsewhere. The only thing missing in the Benten system is a Fuel CoGC in the system, and RE CoGC on Katoa.


[20-Jun-24 06:55 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
the problem is that the universe doesn't that much fuel 😆 margins are already too slim to push that far


[20-Jun-24 07:01 PM] .urpalhal#0000
Ergo we *need* nuclear reactor to make tritium for FF fuel. Super efficient

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😆 

[20-Jun-24 07:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I'll just build a fleet of those super fast ships that consume like 1200 fuel per trip and burn it all up till it's profitable again 😆


[21-Jun-24 02:49 AM] akyantor#0000
I'm definitely going to feel the benefit of these upgrades when availabile. It's started to get to the point my two little ships are constantly moving to keep up with resupplies. 😛


[21-Jun-24 11:13 AM] akyantor#0000
I realised that buying 30 days of supplies means more than one trip in a starter ship. 😛


[21-Jun-24 12:46 PM] razesdark#0000
I know the feeling.
I'm struggling as it is (though much of it is by my own design). Im even renting a ship from another new player friend of mine that is constantly ferrying me resources 😉


[21-Jun-24 01:20 PM] acramernc#0000
just picked up 2 upgrade kits today, so now i won't have shipping capacity problems but will instead have to struggle to fill the ships


[21-Jun-24 01:21 PM] acramernc#0000
i can only imagine how expensive enough carbon to fill a WCB costs :Aware:


[21-Jun-24 01:21 PM] .urpalhal#0000
1000 C


[21-Jun-24 01:21 PM] .urpalhal#0000
So


[21-Jun-24 01:21 PM] .urpalhal#0000
700,000


[21-Jun-24 01:22 PM] acramernc#0000
huh, more achievable than i thought tbh


[21-Jun-24 01:39 PM] razesdark#0000
Hopefully by next week Ill have enough capital to buy a kit from Shaitr and get one of my starters converted


[21-Jun-24 01:40 PM] razesdark#0000
Though, I got a few thousand tons of ore I need moving if your ships are idle. 2-3 days for the return trip from ANT station 😉


[21-Jun-24 02:29 PM] acramernc#0000
where's your ore at lol, my ship still has to make the return trip from Moria


[21-Jun-24 02:38 PM] razesdark#0000
KI-840c


[21-Jun-24 02:45 PM] acramernc#0000
ah yeah thats a bit far out of the way for me rn


[21-Jun-24 02:46 PM] razesdark#0000
Yep


[22-Jun-24 06:33 AM] uncle_leslie69#0000
I built a 3rd ship but now I need to pay back 5mil 🫠🫠


[22-Jun-24 06:34 AM] uncle_leslie69#0000
Tbf, it’s not too bad. Very thankful for the 3rd one


[25-Jun-24 05:32 PM] jvaler#0000
@WKP announcement:
the first batch of kits is going to be ready in a few days and we had decided to use a random number generator to determine who gets the first 3 of 12 kits, however i've noticed a few players seem to have a more pressing need for WCBs than others.

one thing that should be easy to do is exclude @neeko.cat from this first raffle as they've received an advance on both of their kits by RiseOfFilth. these kits can be provided lastly in order to pay back rise, leaving 3/5 participants getting kits this round.

if any of you feel like you have a less urgent need for logistics please let me know so that others can be more likely(or even guaranteed) to get a kit early. note that if you forfeit your kit this batch it is still guaranteed to be provided next batch, just as if you had simply lost the raffle.


[25-Jun-24 06:02 PM] neeko.cat#0000
^^


[26-Jun-24 01:28 AM] akyantor#0000
I think from memory there's a 10 day gap, ish, between batches. I've had some assistance from a corp mate that's lessened my need in the very short term, as such I would be ok being in the second batch, if other folks have a pressing need.


[26-Jun-24 05:07 AM] nyanism#0000
same as Akyan, if i dont win the lotto on 1st batch, @evany. will do the shipping since he's the one coming up with RNGsus

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[01-Jul-24 06:57 PM] jcheung#0000
👀 what's the wait time for group 2?


[01-Jul-24 06:58 PM] jvaler#0000
quite a while... this is feeling slower than i expected


[01-Jul-24 06:58 PM] jvaler#0000
batch 1/4 of group 1 should be ready soon


[01-Jul-24 06:58 PM] jvaler#0000
i'll be sending out my LCB shortly


[02-Jul-24 05:34 PM] jvaler#0000
@WKP I've recieved the first 3 kits! My ship is en-route and will likely be back at ANT within the next 4 days. Now's the time to run the random number generator, so to be clear it doesn't seem like anyone's forfeiting their "ticket" right now?

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pog (2) 

[02-Jul-24 05:41 PM] neeko.cat#0000
I can be the last one to receive them as you pointed out already


[02-Jul-24 05:50 PM] jvaler#0000
right, aside from u i mean lol


[02-Jul-24 06:52 PM] jcheung#0000
Maybe I'm misreading, but didn't  akyan volunteer to forfeit this round?


[02-Jul-24 07:01 PM] jvaler#0000
oh i was under the impression akyan was stretched for logi but yeah, looks like they did


[02-Jul-24 07:01 PM] jvaler#0000
okay


[03-Jul-24 01:04 AM] akyantor#0000
Yeah, fine to be in the second group


[03-Jul-24 01:40 AM] riseoffilth#0000
Did you clear this purchase and import with the Antares Shipbuilder'S'authority? 

The details for ASS can be found here: @riseoffilth


[03-Jul-24 01:51 AM] jcheung#0000
would it be in the hole at the middle?

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1257951830500048997/image.png?ex=68151430&is=6813c2b0&hm=05089c92a74cc5bf86603aa79d644ddb833a30c5815c7122575d8a23b46792ab&


[03-Jul-24 01:53 AM] riseoffilth#0000
I think the whole thing is ASS


[03-Jul-24 12:49 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
@jvaler you need LHP yet?


[03-Jul-24 12:59 PM] jvaler#0000
not atm, the stuff i'm importing from MOR will cover this batch

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[03-Jul-24 02:23 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
do you know how much more total you'll need? KAWA uses it in CI space, but I want to stock ANT with whatever you'll need


[07-Jul-24 11:27 AM] jvaler#0000
sorry for the delay, it'll be 312 LHP


[07-Jul-24 11:29 AM] jvaler#0000
okay i have the kits! running the poll now
1 - igfloz
2 - SecretAce
3 - lelisa
4 - Nyannism


[07-Jul-24 11:30 AM] jvaler#0000

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1259547047678443582/image.png?ex=6814f319&is=6813a199&hm=13aee22c016a54e1dae53865e699b8c1a3198c24fda460c0ecaebd1cc3e0ff35&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1259547048148074616/image.png?ex=6814f319&is=6813a199&hm=548c2aae62dd089e970d4ab8a2a859b353e7cc8b9072fcd461ade7baff6befde&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1259547048764506212/image.png?ex=6814f319&is=6813a199&hm=22f0ee9b9c69ec48cfe72168b799fc4345f6d9a32fccb3c7e77cb5b04ce28d9f&


[07-Jul-24 11:31 AM] jvaler#0000
@igfloz @chobbycock @.shiva. please send me 0 AIC buy conts @ ANT for HALF of what is listed in your part of the finances sheet


[07-Jul-24 11:49 AM] igfloz#0000
damn ! a RAT cont fell through - I'll re-send


[07-Jul-24 11:49 AM] jvaler#0000
wait wait i'm sorry


[07-Jul-24 11:50 AM] jvaler#0000
can you resend for 1 kit? i only have 3


[07-Jul-24 11:50 AM] jvaler#0000
that's my fault for bad instructions


[07-Jul-24 11:51 AM] igfloz#0000
oh, just reject em all, I'll re-send for 1 kit


[07-Jul-24 11:58 AM] igfloz#0000
You want 32 SSC back ?


[07-Jul-24 11:59 AM] jvaler#0000
i've got all the SSC, you can keep that

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[07-Jul-24 01:30 PM] nyanism#0000
@evany. Congratulation evan, now you get to haul most of my stuff until the next batch arrived :KEKW:

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[07-Jul-24 01:45 PM] evany.#0000
https://tenor.com/view/not-me-the-devil-jason-sudeikis-saturday-night-live-wasnt-me-gif-23602956

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/not-me-the-devil-jason-sudeikis-saturday-night-live-wasnt-me-gif-23602956
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/-TK76VaRCVPyKUtLZ01fBMJ59RP6ggMhGumP9FpY7qE/https/media.tenor.com/qMCVo-Tkq00AAAAe/not-me-the-devil.png


[07-Jul-24 03:03 PM] chobbycock#0000
@jvaler thats my lot of the contracts sent over


[07-Jul-24 03:12 PM] chobbycock#0000
Would you guys suggest upgrading the engine at the same time?


[07-Jul-24 03:12 PM] chobbycock#0000
To a fuel saving one


[07-Jul-24 03:18 PM] evany.#0000
from your starter? @chobbycock 
i think the general advice is no - theres no reason to


[07-Jul-24 03:18 PM] evany.#0000
fuel usage is such a minor component that it would have to run for years before there would be any cost-benefit


[07-Jul-24 03:19 PM] evany.#0000
i haven't done the numbers personally, but from when i asked the same question when i was new kid- that was what i was told


[07-Jul-24 03:27 PM] jcheung#0000
Don't they also improve thrust?


[07-Jul-24 03:27 PM] jcheung#0000
Protentially less time in transit, no?


[07-Jul-24 03:28 PM] sidepipe#0000
I don't know if the FSE does, but you can test it out by making different blueprints and using the BTF buffer


[07-Jul-24 03:29 PM] jcheung#0000
I'm 80% sure they do, but I'm also not trying to do that on mobile


[07-Jul-24 03:30 PM] jcheung#0000
No idea on roi for time though


[07-Jul-24 03:30 PM] jcheung#0000
Probably still really long


[07-Jul-24 03:30 PM] sidepipe#0000
but in most cases, improved thrust = lower fuel efficiency which probably isn't worth it at this stage


[07-Jul-24 03:31 PM] sidepipe#0000
you can totally throw HYR and fastest engines possible on a 500/500 ship if you wanna amazon prime stuff around the galaxy, but they eat fuel like no one's business


[07-Jul-24 04:11 PM] chobbycock#0000
ah ok, yea there's no improvement to thrust on that engine, just thought fuel saving would maybe be worth it, but I'll just stick with standard


[07-Jul-24 05:01 PM] jvaler#0000
no, it's very wasteful. the ROI period on that upgrade(because it voids the original engine) is so long as to be pointless. use a FSE on new constructions, not upgrades.

plus, FSE has less thrust than a starter anyways


[07-Jul-24 05:07 PM] razenpok#0000
Use GEN for new ships, fuel is cheap :thanoshdaddy:


[07-Jul-24 05:10 PM] razenpok#0000
iirc the cost difference between GEN and ENG is ~300 fuel-days


[07-Jul-24 05:17 PM] jvaler#0000
iirc GEN has less thrust tho


[07-Jul-24 05:24 PM] razenpok#0000
Yep, you would need to put more fuel to reach similar speeds

{Attachments}
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[07-Jul-24 05:26 PM] razenpok#0000
Still, fuel cheap :clueless:


[07-Jul-24 05:28 PM] razenpok#0000
There's a fun difference though - GEN spends more time in atmospheric maneuvers, so the ship sustains more damage during those


[08-Jul-24 02:22 AM] riseoffilth#0000
JOST BABY TRAPPED SCARLET! still upset to this day


[08-Jul-24 10:11 AM] chobbycock#0000
Would you guys suggest repairing my ship before upgrading? Or does it automatically get repaired when it upgrades anyway?


[08-Jul-24 10:12 AM] chobbycock#0000
And does the condition of a ship work the same as buildings, where the effectiveness goes down the more wear it has?


[08-Jul-24 10:16 AM] igfloz#0000
AFAIK - better to repair the ship before upgrade, and yes ship flight speed decreases once below 80% I think


[08-Jul-24 01:07 PM] .shiva.#0000
Was out of town last weekend, will sort the contracts out in a bit


[08-Jul-24 08:22 PM] riseoffilth#0000
IF you are making the ship larger, you should absolutely repair before upgrading. If you are changing to a cheap hull plate, consider waiting until after to repair.


[09-Jul-24 07:00 PM] .shiva.#0000
Alright, upgrade started! Thanks for coordinating this!

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[10-Jul-24 11:37 AM] igfloz#0000
Just fuelled mine up, let the hauling begin !


[10-Jul-24 05:34 PM] jvaler#0000
@.shiva. uh i appreciate the repayment but i don't have an easy way to input half of what you owe into the sheet because everything is itemized


[10-Jul-24 05:34 PM] jvaler#0000
could you maybe hold onto the money for now?


[10-Jul-24 05:34 PM] .shiva.#0000
ah ok, yeah no worries


[11-Jul-24 09:25 AM] jvaler#0000
@nyanism @akyantor i just got the 2nd batch! it will be here within the next 3-5 days, so please send conts with a 7 day deadline with the same instructions as the others

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🥳 (2) 

[11-Jul-24 09:29 AM] jvaler#0000
but now i have 1 extra kit to raffle off...


[11-Jul-24 09:30 AM] jcheung#0000
👀


[11-Jul-24 09:31 AM] jvaler#0000
using the order of entry into the spreadsheet(skipping nala.cat) it looks like akyan wins it?

{Attachments}
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[11-Jul-24 09:31 AM] jvaler#0000
karma for being patient i suppose

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😂 

[11-Jul-24 09:31 AM] jvaler#0000
@akyantor send me conts for your second kit too!


[11-Jul-24 10:04 AM] nyanism#0000
:cat_rage:


[11-Jul-24 10:58 AM] akyantor#0000
Sod’s law I win the ship upgrade lottery while away from home. I’ll send the contracts tomorrow.

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[11-Jul-24 10:58 AM] akyantor#0000
Awesome news though


[12-Jul-24 10:46 AM] akyantor#0000
Ok, I'm back. Need to figure out these contracts. 😛


[12-Jul-24 10:56 AM] akyantor#0000
Ok, @jvaler I've sent over one set of contracts for both kits. I hope that's ok. Figured that was simpler than doubling up.


[12-Jul-24 10:59 AM] jvaler#0000
gonna wait to accept those for a bit, that deadline is kinda close


[12-Jul-24 11:01 AM] akyantor#0000
Doh, forgot they were still to be shipped. :S


[12-Jul-24 11:02 AM] akyantor#0000
Should have made them 7 day :S


[12-Jul-24 11:02 AM] akyantor#0000
I can resend if you prefer.


[12-Jul-24 11:26 AM] jvaler#0000
nono it's fine


[15-Jul-24 03:25 PM] spermatozoon_saloon#0000
Helloo, registering my interest for the future as I'll be soon shipping raw ag products from Harmonia (& later Life) to Norwick


[17-Jul-24 09:08 AM] jvaler#0000
noted! ty

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[23-Jul-24 02:24 PM] jvaler#0000
@nyanism you recieved your kit right? i've got one sitting at ANT for some reason

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[23-Jul-24 08:55 PM] nyanism#0000
nope,  i didnt win any dice roll lol


[23-Jul-24 10:50 PM] jvaler#0000
you didn't need to... 2 batches of 3 = 6 kits, so everyone should have at least 1


[23-Jul-24 10:50 PM] jvaler#0000
you were pinged here to send conts for a kit lol https://discord.com/channels/1183243037430796339/1252407294654939177/1260965260978950335


[23-Jul-24 10:58 PM] nyanism#0000
I did? That one was when you found 1 extra kit collecting dust, and the dice rolled on Akyan side


[23-Jul-24 10:59 PM] nyanism#0000
Well, guess ill send cont for them now then


[23-Jul-24 10:59 PM] jvaler#0000
no that extra kit was in addition to those 2 i told y'all to take


[23-Jul-24 10:59 PM] jvaler#0000
it was after i sent that message


[23-Jul-24 10:59 PM] nyanism#0000
Then its my own poor reading skills lol, ill check what need to be request then send them


[23-Jul-24 11:00 PM] jvaler#0000
alright! sorry you didn't get your kit for so long :/


[23-Jul-24 11:00 PM] nyanism#0000
Its ok, i still blame @evany. hahahaha

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[23-Jul-24 11:01 PM] nyanism#0000
And rise land me on a workforce shortage planet, so the situation wasnt that dire (but still bad lul) :KEKW:


[23-Jul-24 11:20 PM] nyanism#0000
@jvaler sent cont for half of everything on the list, kindly lemme know if i messed up any thing more lol


[23-Jul-24 11:21 PM] jvaler#0000
fulfilled ✅

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GatoXD 

[25-Jul-24 10:29 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
More LHP is available whenever you need it 😊 no rush, I've got what I need in Benten so I'm just piling it up on ANT now

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🙏 

[26-Jul-24 11:40 AM] jvaler#0000
recieved another batch! sending my ship out now to retrieve it


[02-Aug-24 12:42 AM] jvaler#0000
okay i have the batch sitting at ANT, but the last one just finished a day ago so i'm gonna go grab that and then just distribute everything instead of doing another RNG roll

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_kek_ 

[02-Aug-24 02:46 AM] akyantor#0000
FYI - I've sent a repayment contract for the MSL & SSC on my two kits to Jvaler.


[02-Aug-24 09:45 AM] akyantor#0000
Btw, fixed up formula on column H of the first summary sheet so it properly shows amount paid back: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5AORkSfF-w2M5W51y6FrAqH8_YxgTwjH8etOP4WJEc/edit?gid=945418939#gid=945418939


[02-Aug-24 10:02 AM] jvaler#0000
oh didn't know it was broken, thx!


[02-Aug-24 10:31 AM] akyantor#0000
To be fair, first time there's been a repayment, so would be hard to spot.


[02-Aug-24 01:28 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
@jvaler if your plan is to discontinue this project I'd like to take it over ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think I could provide the materials, though I might change the parts and queue system a bit


[02-Aug-24 01:28 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Was side sidepipe providing the loans?


[02-Aug-24 01:40 PM] sidepipe#0000
I don’t think there were any plans to discontinue the WKP, but jvaler would the the ultimate source. Jvaler and I funded it 50/50


[08-Aug-24 03:53 PM] kudagit#0000
Hi, next edition is planed?


[08-Aug-24 03:57 PM] tanda#0000
if you personally are interested, as a stop gap measure you should reach out to Schaitr on UFO. I think this program is in hiatus, potentially being moved over to something else


[08-Aug-24 03:57 PM] tanda#0000
https://discord.com/channels/855488309802172469/1202257500213366804


[08-Aug-24 03:58 PM] tanda#0000
https://discord.gg/Jwqa9N4G


[08-Aug-24 04:14 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I think @evany. had some plans for trying to make them internally? but that will take time to set up. KAWA will also be able to help in the future if that's still not enough for demand. But both are not ready for delivery yet so Shaitr is probably your best bet, though they're also pretty backed up last I heard...


[08-Aug-24 04:24 PM] evany.#0000
even if supply was good to go (it isn't) 

the project isn't open right now
further much like others there is weeks of delays

Will hopefully have some news next week to share


[14-Aug-24 02:06 PM] .shiva.#0000
Just wondering if these ended up back at ANT?


[14-Aug-24 03:20 PM] jvaler#0000
OH yes omg


[14-Aug-24 03:20 PM] jvaler#0000
i totally forgot to distribute didn't i

{Reactions}
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[14-Aug-24 03:20 PM] jvaler#0000
lemme get on that


[15-Aug-24 06:26 AM] nyanism#0000
:Badcat:


[15-Aug-24 06:02 PM] jvaler#0000
@igfloz @chobbycock @.shiva. @nyanism could you all please send conts for your last WCB kit?


[15-Aug-24 06:11 PM] igfloz#0000
oooh,  this is exciting


[15-Aug-24 06:25 PM] igfloz#0000
conts sent - I don't need SSC, you gave me double last time 🙂


[15-Aug-24 06:28 PM] igfloz#0000
Oh gawd, I should really think about paying some of this back  😳


[15-Aug-24 06:36 PM] chobbycock#0000
Conts sent


[15-Aug-24 06:59 PM] jcheung#0000
Congrats, you thought about it

{Reactions}
🤣 

[15-Aug-24 09:30 PM] revoric#0000
is there a list to be added to the next wave, if there is one?


[15-Aug-24 09:39 PM] jcheung#0000
i think this particular program may be getting sunset, but another option may be getting spun up in the near future.


[15-Aug-24 09:41 PM] revoric#0000
okie :), im excited for the shipbuilding aspect.  looks expensive but i see the aloure


[16-Aug-24 04:11 PM] igfloz#0000
@jvaler any chance of fulfilling the conts I have sent ? I have a ship ready for upgrade 🙂


[16-Aug-24 04:11 PM] jvaler#0000
yup lemme get on


[16-Aug-24 04:13 PM] igfloz#0000
You're awesome ! tysm


[17-Aug-24 12:03 PM] igfloz#0000
@jvaler I've sent 3 conts for part payment. Please accept and we can terminate once I have paid


[18-Aug-24 02:41 AM] jvaler#0000
@nyanism did you get your kit? i see conts for the other 3 but not you


[18-Aug-24 02:44 AM] nyanism#0000
i'll try to get it tongiht, got a bit busy boss


[18-Aug-24 02:44 AM] jvaler#0000
no worries


[18-Aug-24 02:44 AM] jvaler#0000
just wanna make sure ur not left out


[23-Aug-24 09:42 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Where is planning for this happening? I'd love to help how I can, and maybe supply some kits in the short term


[23-Aug-24 10:15 AM] jvaler#0000
i'm not gonna be running it, just partly financing. you can ask @evany. for details


[23-Aug-24 10:18 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000
It's hard for me to help ADI financially, easier to help with materials, so I'm happy to help with this project


[23-Aug-24 10:21 AM] jcheung#0000
What materials can you offer and for what?


[23-Aug-24 11:30 AM] evany.#0000
I’ll be posting whole thing shortly

{Reactions}
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[23-Aug-24 05:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
right now we're overproducing LHP, LFE, SSC, and MFL, in that order. Our bottleneck is the WCBs, but we're catching up there a bit. KAWA's upgrade pack is usually: WCB, MFL, LFE, 26 SSC, and 64 LHP


[23-Aug-24 05:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
once we're caught up with enough upgrade kits for all of our new members, I can start sending excess material to ANT


[23-Aug-24 05:18 PM] jcheung#0000
Well, having a source for LFE might not be bad. Delays need for electronics mfg


[23-Aug-24 05:20 PM] jcheung#0000
Lhp and ssc we'll need to source


[23-Aug-24 05:24 PM] jcheung#0000
May i also ask what the overproduction looks like per time? Or is that something tbat isn't really known


[23-Aug-24 06:36 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
hard to say with the SSC and LHP since they're used for repairs too and that's pretty inconsistent, but I'm sitting on 1100 LHP right now, and 3k SSC, and that's after dumping a few hundred on CX recently... we pretty intentionally went big with LHP early on in our shipbuilding project because we knew the excess would sell easily to help fund the rest of the project. Now that everything is mostly up and running, there's still just a ton more LHP production than we'll ever need and I'd love to send it towards this. The LFE and MFL might *eventually* run out once our production balances out a bit, but what we have could last a while


[23-Aug-24 07:26 PM] evany.#0000
@cptcoleslaw its been posted under planning now 

We have no real plans for LHP / SSC at the moment so if you have excess or anything else listed would be happy to work with you


[23-Aug-24 07:32 PM] tanda#0000
I do already produce LHP, but not SSC


[23-Aug-24 07:33 PM] jcheung#0000
i think KZ_Kawasaki also makes SSC


[23-Aug-24 07:35 PM] evany.#0000
yes theres a few people in here that produce LHP and SSC so not really concerned about that part of it


[23-Aug-24 07:35 PM] evany.#0000
its also simple in comparison so.


[23-Aug-24 07:35 PM] evany.#0000
https://tenor.com/view/whatever-idc-i-dont-care-no-thanks-no-one-care-gif-16772865

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/whatever-idc-i-dont-care-no-thanks-no-one-care-gif-16772865
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/RfmfacrD74sJnacOJlcqGVbv_sYrGE_wMRJXyWlcqKc/https/media.tenor.com/FBqmmYQDL88AAAAe/whatever-idc.png

{Reactions}
😆 

[23-Aug-24 07:38 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
what kits to you plan to make?


[23-Aug-24 07:38 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
that can affect the needed LHP/SSC a lot


[23-Aug-24 07:39 PM] jcheung#0000
WCB, MSL, LFL


[23-Aug-24 07:40 PM] jcheung#0000
i can see why you chose to go with MFL instead of LFL though


[23-Aug-24 07:40 PM] jcheung#0000
ZR sucks


[23-Aug-24 07:41 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
yeah, and honestly the SSL is plenty for most empires, especially early on. the small *fast fuel* tank though can be very limiting for longer trips, like CX to CX


[23-Aug-24 07:41 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
so I usually just upgrade people to MFL and that's plenty for a long time


[23-Aug-24 07:41 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I ran 14 bases and all my ships still only have SSL, MFL


[23-Aug-24 07:41 PM] jcheung#0000
...actually. evayoo, we could offer MFL slightly cheaper. would take some of the strain off ASMs if those are chosen instead of LFL.


[23-Aug-24 07:42 PM] jcheung#0000
uses half the RM input, and 3/4 the final time to build


[23-Aug-24 07:42 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
not only is the MFL cheaper than MSL+LFL, but it also *greatly* reduces the LHP and SSC needs for the upgrade


[23-Aug-24 07:42 PM] jcheung#0000
does it?


[23-Aug-24 07:42 PM] evany.#0000
WCB, LFL MSL LFE


[23-Aug-24 07:43 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I think that for starter ship upgrades, providing just the essentials for as cheap as possible is what's important for new players


[23-Aug-24 07:43 PM] evany.#0000
I didn't look at MFL to be honest, I know there was some discussion around that


[23-Aug-24 07:43 PM] jcheung#0000
it's 1 more LHP, and same SSC count difference between MFL and LFL


[23-Aug-24 07:43 PM] evany.#0000
Ultimately the goal was to target t he existing ship(s) which I just targeted WKP


[23-Aug-24 07:45 PM] jcheung#0000
oh. and another 3 LHP / ~~4~~ 6 SSC for the STL tank


[23-Aug-24 07:49 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
starter upgrade to MFL, WCB, LHP:
1 WCB, 1 LFE, 1 MFL, 26 SSC, 64 LHP

starter upgrade to LFL, MSL, WCB, LHP:
1 WCB, 1 LFE, 1 LFL, 1 MSL, 32 SSC, 68 LHP

so the cost difference is:
1 MSL
6 SSC
4 LHP
LHL - MFL


[23-Aug-24 07:49 PM] jcheung#0000
those SSC numbers are wrong


[23-Aug-24 07:49 PM] jcheung#0000
78 SSC is for the whole ship


[23-Aug-24 07:49 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
you right, jsut a sec


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] jcheung#0000
need to do 78-46


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] jcheung#0000
try again


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] jcheung#0000
should be 32 not 52


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
gimme a sec, I've had a mimosa and it's late. I can do this, lol


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] jcheung#0000
haha


[23-Aug-24 07:50 PM] jcheung#0000
https://tenor.com/bWNK1.gif

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/mihlali-pour-drink-drinking-alcohol-gif-26368281
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/aoxcZv1aXJajLLFkERoutefUf5tfm2Zfzn0wMlRNqhg/https/media.tenor.com/RDN-PFpEHk8AAAAe/mihlali-pour-drink.png


[23-Aug-24 07:51 PM] jcheung#0000
just a "little" drink


[23-Aug-24 07:52 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Just "one"

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1276705645156110479/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_82cd1364-bfb0-4dbd-949a-a2e47918510f.jpg?ex=6814c009&is=68136e89&hm=7aa6d0187ae2cd0f6bb13da3ec25d846232911e50a6f26ef19fc1b3fec0e4f48&


[23-Aug-24 07:52 PM] jcheung#0000
anyhow. i think one of the considerations for adding a MSL would be that you lose MFEs if you don't upgrade STL tanks


[23-Aug-24 07:52 PM] jcheung#0000
and that's expensive


[23-Aug-24 07:53 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
hmm... that's fair, but again, it's a pretty long term kind of thinking. I think for new players, the goal is "best ship for least money"


[23-Aug-24 07:53 PM] jcheung#0000
the MFE is like half the price of the MSL


[23-Aug-24 07:53 PM] jcheung#0000
oaky, fair


[23-Aug-24 07:53 PM] jcheung#0000
yes, it is farther down the line


[23-Aug-24 07:53 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
also 6 SSC and 4 LHP also slightly increases repair cost, which is long term too


[23-Aug-24 07:55 PM] jcheung#0000
sure, but that's manageable


[23-Aug-24 07:55 PM] jcheung#0000
i would set aside SSC and LHP costs for this comparison, it's like what, 20k?


[23-Aug-24 07:55 PM] jcheung#0000
err. additional SSC and LHP costs*


[23-Aug-24 07:56 PM] jcheung#0000
so the real consideration will be the cost of the MSL, cost difference between LFL and MFL


[23-Aug-24 07:56 PM] jcheung#0000
....whatever those "costs" may be, i don't think we got that far


[23-Aug-24 07:57 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
MSL averages like 160k+
LFL 235k - MFL 200k = 35k
6 SSC is 900
LHP is 4k

so a difference of ~200k


[23-Aug-24 07:57 PM] jcheung#0000
that's market right?


[23-Aug-24 07:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
the first 2 are. I'm offering fixed prices for SSC and LHP so I'm just using those, since I'll provide that regardless of what blueprint we use


[23-Aug-24 07:58 PM] jcheung#0000
our price will be lower than market, i know that much


[23-Aug-24 07:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
at this point I think we need a full part list with prices... is it spreadsheet time?


[23-Aug-24 07:59 PM] jcheung#0000
maybe not what Schaitr offers, but somewhere between that and market


[23-Aug-24 07:59 PM] jcheung#0000
reference on Schaitr

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1276707375994114079/image.png?ex=6814c1a6&is=68137026&hm=e0cff11e15d84954b8c492ddcc35b9449cf5edffc4cde1271e136e8bd2b5f97f&


[23-Aug-24 07:59 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I think his prices may have gone up too, idk


[23-Aug-24 08:00 PM] jcheung#0000
that's what i picked up from him at a week or two ago

{Reactions}
👍 

[23-Aug-24 08:00 PM] jcheung#0000
though i talked to them for a bit and they said they're taking a loss at these prices

{Reactions}
💯 (2) 

[23-Aug-24 08:00 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
what is that a screenshot from?...


[23-Aug-24 08:00 PM] jcheung#0000
when i picked up my WCB kit

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1276707747366436974/image.png?ex=6814c1ff&is=6813707f&hm=5d07f08c2515281a203d53706b8f9134430bca11e0b8ce46dbc2a72aa6c41dc8&


[23-Aug-24 08:01 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
oh nice. I thought you just had a really beautiful spreadsheet set up 😆


[23-Aug-24 08:01 PM] jcheung#0000
hahaha. no. i did alter evayoo's sheet a bit


[23-Aug-24 08:01 PM] jcheung#0000
but i wouldn't call my alterations pretty


[23-Aug-24 08:02 PM] jcheung#0000
here, soemthing for you to review
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14QoSbgemUH7iiVs7eSXTk9-qDdG5PNVvknvpTfXvmM0/edit?gid=1744189449#gid=1744189449&range=A1

{Embed}
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14QoSbgemUH7iiVs7eSXTk9-qDdG5PNVvknvpTfXvmM0/edit?gid=1744189449
ADI Shippening?
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/OX31i1az1JxGdz6LzLFBgALIVEoJVquaiaT7nuOY9r0/https/lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docs/AHkbwyJll8oy91R6KzbSBXRfOTYdczMcSesXyNFI6LLqc503R8XWCxivlr07RU6F5pcKBdLqjmD2gvwZGbx3dfBgbr0ID7nePW7p5AbPxu6nfLvkLXLu6L5b%3Dw1200-h630-p


[23-Aug-24 08:02 PM] jcheung#0000
uhm... it's a bit messy


[23-Aug-24 08:02 PM] jcheung#0000
i've made alterations on tab...


[23-Aug-24 08:02 PM] jcheung#0000
base 2


[23-Aug-24 08:03 PM] jcheung#0000
added tab testing cost - theory crafting
added tab I/O calculator - i think it works, but i might be off on a few things


[23-Aug-24 08:03 PM] jcheung#0000
added tab notes


[23-Aug-24 08:03 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
oh that's cool


[23-Aug-24 08:04 PM] jcheung#0000
it needs validation


[23-Aug-24 08:04 PM] jcheung#0000
anyways


[23-Aug-24 08:04 PM] jcheung#0000
if you see something stupid i did, call me out on it


[23-Aug-24 08:06 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
😅 I doubt I'll have time to look too thoroughly, but this is nice. I don't have a lot of time for planning any more, I just kinda throw around money and some mediocre advice where it seems most wanted, lol.


[23-Aug-24 08:07 PM] jcheung#0000
i didn't at all spend 5 days working on this when i should have been doing other stuff


[23-Aug-24 08:07 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
just looking at your deltas on the right of that tab, I can help provide FLX if needed. And W is super cheap on CX usually


[23-Aug-24 08:07 PM] evany.#0000
5 days?


[23-Aug-24 08:07 PM] evany.#0000
no we spent a lot more than 5 days on that sir


[23-Aug-24 08:07 PM] jcheung#0000
yeah. someone convinced me W was bad to make


[23-Aug-24 08:08 PM] jcheung#0000
shh. i'm trying to make us not look crazy


[23-Aug-24 08:08 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
😆 I feel that. You have no idea how much time we spent on the prep for KAWA full shipbuilding project... I wrote my first python code just to help sort out the needed buildings, lol


[23-Aug-24 08:08 PM] evany.#0000
https://tenor.com/view/crazy-yes-gif-24735185

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/crazy-yes-gif-24735185
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/aHvakkLaWqxVZQxg_-mztFFrLLCOITgQiEbK0pYjCx0/https/media.tenor.com/obD4czvJ1A4AAAAe/crazy-yes.png


[23-Aug-24 08:08 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
*weeks*... and we're *still* building that up


[23-Aug-24 08:08 PM] jcheung#0000
considering this is a tiny portion of what a full shipbuilding project would need, i think i feel your pain


[23-Aug-24 08:09 PM] evany.#0000
i did consider coding something for it too.


[23-Aug-24 08:09 PM] evany.#0000
none of the existing tools seem to 'support' that kind of scope


[23-Aug-24 08:09 PM] jcheung#0000
though


[23-Aug-24 08:10 PM] jcheung#0000
i built the I/O calc with the intention to one day get bored enough to throw every single piece of production into it


[23-Aug-24 08:10 PM] jcheung#0000
so it could be toggled on/off


[23-Aug-24 08:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
they didn't when we made it. PRUNplanner now has a tool that does what we wrote ours to do, mostly. Our code took a list of outputs (the final ship parts we wanted), and broke it down into a CSV of every single material needed all the way down the supply chain, how much per day was needed, the buildings they are made at, and the industry those buildings are classified as. This allowed us to break the whole project down by CoGC bonus and make a big sheet where people can claim what they want to make. It was pretty cool. My code was super simple, but a very talented member of KAWA make a much more impressive version that help *so* much with figuring out where to even *begin* with shipbuilding


[23-Aug-24 08:17 PM] jcheung#0000
RM extraction, of course


[23-Aug-24 08:17 PM] jcheung#0000
i kid


[23-Aug-24 08:23 PM] archielvahr#0000
I can provide SSC. It gets produced incredibly quickly


[23-Aug-24 08:23 PM] archielvahr#0000
Just ping me with an amount and a price


[23-Aug-24 08:42 PM] jcheung#0000
noted


[24-Aug-24 02:07 AM] jvaler#0000
@neeko.cat did rise supply you with LHP & SSC? or did i? i forgor


[24-Aug-24 02:08 AM] jvaler#0000
currently sending conts to reimburse rise


[24-Aug-24 04:36 PM] neeko.cat#0000
i never got a ship part from you, idk whether or not you talked to him :(


[24-Aug-24 04:36 PM] neeko.cat#0000
oh


[24-Aug-24 04:36 PM] neeko.cat#0000
missreaded it


[24-Aug-24 04:37 PM] neeko.cat#0000
yes rise gave me all the ship parts


[24-Aug-24 04:37 PM] neeko.cat#0000
but


[24-Aug-24 04:38 PM] neeko.cat#0000
anyway since i clearly cant talk nor read, this is the remains of the shipyard project

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1277019193690161253/image.png?ex=6814928d&is=6813410d&hm=ee2ce427f5d218f389f7974fea4ed28c71232069b01942ad1f84e52551c0385b&


[24-Aug-24 05:31 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
That looks like it's ready to be built.


[24-Aug-24 05:41 PM] jcheung#0000
I would guess already built


[24-Aug-24 05:46 PM] neeko.cat#0000
your guess is right, it's... complicated


[24-Aug-24 05:47 PM] neeko.cat#0000
been built for some weeks now


[24-Aug-24 05:51 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Ahh, they didn't press the "Start" button... It happens, I guess. I do it all the time, since your FLT buffer gets filled by the date of finished ship construction (I like to stay organized).


[24-Aug-24 05:52 PM] jcheung#0000
What? This shows like this still after the ships have left the slip


[24-Aug-24 05:52 PM] jcheung#0000
It's a historical log, kinda like all those fulfilled CONTs you can't get rid of


[24-Aug-24 05:53 PM] neeko.cat#0000
^^


[24-Aug-24 05:53 PM] neeko.cat#0000
more than historical log, the dev was lazy to remove that


[25-Aug-24 03:30 AM] jvaler#0000
so... that's a yes rise gave you SSC+LHP?


[25-Aug-24 04:11 AM] neeko.cat#0000
Yup, why do you ask?


[25-Aug-24 04:13 AM] jvaler#0000
so i know what to give back to rise lol


[25-Aug-24 04:19 AM] neeko.cat#0000
👍


[25-Aug-24 04:19 AM] neeko.cat#0000
Thanks!


[25-Aug-24 04:04 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
are you paying Rise cash or giving back materials?


[25-Aug-24 04:04 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
if it's mateerials I've got LHP/SSC


[25-Aug-24 04:04 PM] jvaler#0000
giving back materials


[25-Aug-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
it's partly LHP i had bought off of you :P


[25-Aug-24 04:05 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
😆 then the rest is *definitely* on me. How much you need?

{Reactions}
🚫 

[25-Aug-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
what had happened was nala.cat got an advance on the WCB kits from rise, and so i repaid rise for said kits


[25-Aug-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
so it's the same kits, they just got them early and rise temporarily ate the cost


[25-Aug-24 04:05 PM] jvaler#0000
but everything's sorted out now

{Reactions}
👍 

[25-Aug-24 05:25 PM] jcheung#0000
what was the full kit price again for the previous program? like 800k each?


[25-Aug-24 05:41 PM] tanda#0000
according to the info post, expected range was 750k to 900k


[25-Aug-24 05:41 PM] tanda#0000
which was mostly caused due to LHP issues


[25-Aug-24 05:43 PM] jvaler#0000
it came out to ~800k on the nose, yeah

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252407294654939177/1277397855165747262/image.png?ex=6814a1b5&is=68135035&hm=f375a6c2a3e91060c2586b3d5808f36981fdf7b48ab37b177eacccfa50c5f004&


[25-Aug-24 05:43 PM] jvaler#0000
each of those entries are 2 kits each


[25-Aug-24 05:43 PM] jvaler#0000
so


[25-Aug-24 05:43 PM] igfloz#0000
👆 Thats exactly what I was gonna post 😄


[25-Aug-24 05:45 PM] jvaler#0000
yup, that's where 90% of the price variability came from. cause the actual ship parts were consistent from schaitr, and the SSC is neglible


[25-Aug-24 05:46 PM] tanda#0000
well, it's a lot more stable now, since CptColeslaw offered 1k LHP for the project


[25-Aug-24 05:47 PM] jvaler#0000
is PSK the same as WKP? this is confusing...


[25-Aug-24 05:48 PM] tanda#0000
well, WKP is done, right? with PSK being the spiritual successor?


[25-Aug-24 05:49 PM] jvaler#0000
mhm


[25-Aug-24 05:49 PM] tanda#0000
I still hope we can call it ARISE


[25-Aug-24 05:49 PM] jvaler#0000
yoo


[25-Aug-24 05:49 PM] jvaler#0000
what's that a backronym for?


[25-Aug-24 05:50 PM] tanda#0000
https://discord.com/channels/1183243037430796339/1246543290854146058/1270170045711909056


[25-Aug-24 05:51 PM] jvaler#0000
oooh


[25-Aug-24 05:51 PM] jvaler#0000
though WCBs aren't just for metallurgy and resource extraction...


[25-Aug-24 05:51 PM] jvaler#0000
what about "ship expansion"?


[25-Aug-24 05:51 PM] tanda#0000
yeah, I would definitely say the last bit needs some work


[25-Aug-24 05:52 PM] jvaler#0000
antares refit initiative: ship expansion


[25-Aug-24 05:52 PM] jvaler#0000
that's pretty good


[25-Aug-24 05:54 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Antares Refurbished Ships Endeavor


[25-Aug-24 05:56 PM] jvaler#0000
mmmm


[25-Aug-24 05:56 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Advanced Starter Ships


[25-Aug-24 05:56 PM] jcheung#0000
that's ASS


[25-Aug-24 05:57 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
https://tenor.com/view/smile-qurky-grin-dog-happy-gif-15246667

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/smile-qurky-grin-dog-happy-gif-15246667
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/C3C3Di2Uxb28WAcIVQM85o3HknT3LFrjhhQH7inv3e0/https/media.tenor.com/Snp1eV9CAzMAAAAe/smile-qurky.png


[25-Aug-24 05:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
who started this acronym obsession anyway? Bobemor? 😆


[25-Aug-24 05:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
KAWA doesn't use a single acronym...


[25-Aug-24 05:58 PM] jvaler#0000
wait omg yeah, this all started with DNPC didn't it


[25-Aug-24 05:58 PM] jvaler#0000
lool


[25-Aug-24 05:59 PM] jvaler#0000
hey wait a minute, what does "KAWA" mean?


[25-Aug-24 05:59 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
Kawakawa Inc. is the full corp name, so KAWA is just an abreviation, not an acronym


[25-Aug-24 05:59 PM] jvaler#0000
err what does kawakawa mean*


[25-Aug-24 05:59 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
it's a type of tuna


[25-Aug-24 05:59 PM] jvaler#0000
ohhhhh


[25-Aug-24 06:00 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
(it's also Polish for coffee)


[25-Aug-24 06:00 PM] jvaler#0000
lmao


[25-Aug-24 06:00 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
AHI (and specifically PiBoy) were a huge part of helping KAWA get started, so they picked a logo and name based on AHI, another type of tuna


[25-Aug-24 06:04 PM] tanda#0000
I blame astra and whole heartedly support the acronyms


[25-Aug-24 06:04 PM] tanda#0000
because it's part of the fun, lol


[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] sidepipe#0000
BIPOF 🙂


[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] tanda#0000
and sometimes you get a Kevin


[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] .urpalhal#0000
hey


[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] sidepipe#0000
I like to imagine its Keeping Everyone Very INsulated

{Reactions}
👆 👀 

[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] .urpalhal#0000
KEVIN is great


[25-Aug-24 06:05 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
we love kevin


[25-Aug-24 06:06 PM] tanda#0000
we could have had CUTEAF

{Reactions}
💯 😿 

[25-Aug-24 06:06 PM] .urpalhal#0000
but kevin 🥺


[25-Aug-24 06:09 PM] .urpalhal#0000
democracy decided for us


[25-Aug-24 06:09 PM] .urpalhal#0000
https://tenor.com/view/i-love-it-gif-18812641

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/i-love-it-gif-18812641
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Hx-bnARm56wMHLhX6iLVquFbce6-C_npuwHGdCZbtdg/https/media.tenor.com/wMZnKU7tz2AAAAAe/i-love-it.png


[25-Aug-24 06:09 PM] jvaler#0000
https://tenor.com/view/democracy-i-hate-democracy-i-love-democracy-palpatine-star-wars-gif-11735791915859151746

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/democracy-i-hate-democracy-i-love-democracy-palpatine-star-wars-gif-11735791915859151746
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/5WSBc5boRF_GX4yTN3DpknBN6OtfDHQdyOsRZlEdMOw/https/media.tenor.com/ot3okY6vi4IAAAAe/democracy-i-hate-democracy.png


[25-Aug-24 06:09 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
🤣


[25-Aug-24 06:09 PM] .urpalhal#0000
😂


[25-Aug-24 06:10 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
that was incredible


[25-Aug-24 06:10 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I'm glad I could be here to witness that


[25-Aug-24 06:10 PM] igfloz#0000
rofl - I love the kevin project, and that timing was awesome with the double drop gifs


[25-Aug-24 06:10 PM] jvaler#0000
that was so lucky lmao


[25-Aug-24 06:11 PM] .urpalhal#0000
do we share brain cells?


[25-Aug-24 06:12 PM] jvaler#0000
possibly...


[25-Aug-24 06:12 PM] .urpalhal#0000
😬


[25-Aug-24 06:12 PM] jvaler#0000
you're dissing my braincells???


[25-Aug-24 06:12 PM] igfloz#0000
who's got the other one ?


[25-Aug-24 06:15 PM] .urpalhal#0000
no


[25-Aug-24 06:15 PM] .urpalhal#0000
bc that would be dissing my braincells to

{Reactions}
😆 

[25-Aug-24 06:15 PM] jvaler#0000
wait true 🤯

{Reactions}
😆 

[25-Aug-24 06:16 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I was about to say, "braincell**s**" plural might be too much credit, I'm just borrowing 1


[25-Aug-24 06:16 PM] jvaler#0000
i get 2, as a treat

{Reactions}
😆 💯 

[25-Aug-24 06:21 PM] jcheung#0000
you have brain cells?!


[25-Aug-24 06:25 PM] tanda#0000
you guys have cells?


[25-Aug-24 06:27 PM] jcheung#0000
https://tenor.com/bMeh2.gif

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/cell-membrane-soap-gif-23848664
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Q8PVmFMexEz8hv4xlDZ2YogdcraAvOajOmAgehpI4ao/https/media.tenor.com/fLo8P50TumEAAAAe/cell-membrane.png


[25-Aug-24 06:29 PM] sidepipe#0000
You guys have brain??


[25-Aug-24 06:30 PM] igfloz#0000
only for breakfast

{Reactions}
🤔 

[25-Aug-24 06:30 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000
I'm actually just a computer


[25-Aug-24 06:33 PM] sidepipe#0000
I’m also a computer, but they forgot to make me Turing complete


[25-Aug-24 06:36 PM] tanda#0000
They forgot to make me a computer!


[25-Aug-24 06:37 PM] tanda#0000
instead I just have this Turk inside of me

{Reactions}
😆 

[25-Aug-24 06:41 PM] jcheung#0000
wanna play chess?


[26-Aug-24 02:12 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Per the poll/bulletin, I'd like to say that this program should start off slow, especially if you can't garner timely purchase orders. You can always purchase basic input materials (ores, gases, carbon, flux), off the CX, with mostly sure confidence that the market will resupply itself in a week. It'll also limit the permit contribution needed for the entire group.

The daily/weekly expenses will grow, according the size of the project, and since it's largely a retail market, you may not have many purchase orders per week initially. If you minimise your operational profile, you'll minimise your risk of failure. This, of course, can always expand should you/we gain market confidence/exposure, through time.

Just my two cents.


[26-Aug-24 02:22 PM] jcheung#0000
it's hard to start small


[26-Aug-24 02:23 PM] jcheung#0000
we can trim one of the ASM bases sure, but what do we do with the AML base? build half of it and then do the other half in a month?


[26-Aug-24 02:24 PM] jcheung#0000
or to go even smaller, run all of the smelting operations out of one base? scaling up will be a pain in the balls


[26-Aug-24 02:24 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
You look in LEADS for AML outputs, and send out sales questions.


[26-Aug-24 02:24 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
AMLs can retool for custom orders, if they're not retooling for internal stuff.


[26-Aug-24 02:24 PM] jcheung#0000
are you going to finance this? because AMLs cut a massive amount of the expenses


[26-Aug-24 02:25 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
I know they do... But I'm running my own internal FTL shipbuilding, so nah. I'm not funding this, rather just providing ideas.


[26-Aug-24 02:26 PM] jcheung#0000
we can't outright buy stuff at CX price


[26-Aug-24 02:26 PM] jcheung#0000
it's not tennable


[26-Aug-24 02:26 PM] jcheung#0000
not if our goal is to be relatively cheap


[26-Aug-24 02:27 PM] jcheung#0000
we can't match the offer that schaitr does, but we can do better than market


[26-Aug-24 02:28 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Schaitr's stuff ages out most players, who would like more FTL ships, even just WCB ones.


[26-Aug-24 02:28 PM] jcheung#0000
we're not offering full ships. only conversion kits.


[26-Aug-24 02:28 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
It's an inherent limitation, that he put in, to cut off subsequent demand, that fits his production profile.


[26-Aug-24 02:28 PM] jcheung#0000
discarding AMLs from the plans instantly adds roughly 250k to the price if we have to buy at market


[26-Aug-24 02:29 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Where's the plan data (looking).


[26-Aug-24 02:29 PM] jcheung#0000
you'll have to ask evayoo for access


[26-Aug-24 02:30 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Nah.


[26-Aug-24 02:30 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Try cutting out the ASM, SKF, and extraction opertations, temporarily.


[26-Aug-24 02:32 PM] jcheung#0000
that adds about ~~a million plus~~ 1.4m to the kit cost


[26-Aug-24 02:32 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Or, do something of a hybrid nature... They have high thorough puts... You can cut them out for additional marginal gains per PPU, unless you get enough sales for weekly production.


[26-Aug-24 02:32 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
I'm going off a buffer-type production.


[26-Aug-24 02:33 PM] jcheung#0000
define buffer type production


[26-Aug-24 02:33 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Get all of those SME outputs on site, for an ASM/SKF/whatever, and then run such ASM/SKF for what's being sold.


[26-Aug-24 02:34 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Unless you get a minimal, ratio based production sort of thing, which will involve partial, 1-permit bases.


[26-Aug-24 02:34 PM] jcheung#0000
in what world does what you said make any sort of sense?


[26-Aug-24 02:35 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
My world? 🙂


[26-Aug-24 02:36 PM] jcheung#0000
you want us to cut out ASM SKF and EXT, but you also want us to run ASM / SKF


[26-Aug-24 02:36 PM] jcheung#0000
those operations can't both work at the same time


[26-Aug-24 02:36 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
If you have the sales orders.


[26-Aug-24 02:36 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Else, running constant operations doesn't make sense, in the long term (sales arent guaranteed).


[26-Aug-24 02:38 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
What you'll get, without being competitive (Schaitr's doing new bro business, and I don't think a large project like this can compete with what they're doing in-house [less than break-even PPUs]), over say a handful of weeks or months --- without sales orders, is just a growing inventory, in the AIC equivalent of millions per week.


[26-Aug-24 02:40 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
This potential surplus, will just make people anxious, it will confer below-break-even competition with Schaitr, on such upgrade kits, and it will burn people out... It's why I recommend something small (a product trial, if you will)..


[26-Aug-24 02:41 PM] jcheung#0000
again, going too small has its own complications


[26-Aug-24 02:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
It does...


[26-Aug-24 02:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
But just on base values, an easy WCB/MSL/MFL turnover of ~2 days, per SKF plant.


[26-Aug-24 02:42 PM] jcheung#0000
cool, now where do you source the raw materials to run the SKF


[26-Aug-24 02:43 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
CX --> SME --> ASM --> SKF. AML has it's own concerns, since it's niche. It's just considerations.


[26-Aug-24 02:43 PM] jcheung#0000
you just told me to cut it out


[26-Aug-24 02:44 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
If it makes sense on Prunplanner.


[26-Aug-24 02:44 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
^ forgot to add that detail


[26-Aug-24 02:44 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
sometimes, the CXs become inefficient, and cheap


[26-Aug-24 02:45 PM] jcheung#0000
hmmm. reading back my mistake, my brain read this as "get rid of all those"


[26-Aug-24 02:45 PM] jcheung#0000
rolling back


[26-Aug-24 02:45 PM] jcheung#0000
you also told me here to cut out ASMs


[26-Aug-24 02:46 PM] jcheung#0000
but you want ASMs here


[26-Aug-24 02:49 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Temporarily. Batch production. From my own base designs, SME's take up like 90% of a base area, that's geared for ASM inputs, and I'd need like 1-2 ASMs, to fill it out fully, with SKFs running on a batch production basis. I've got very limited permit availability, however the math will take a similar approach when taken in mass.


[26-Aug-24 02:49 PM] jcheung#0000
so you want to roll all the way up to here then. okay


[26-Aug-24 02:51 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Do an aggressive marketing campaign, reach out to potential buyers, do surveys/etc. That'll give you better metrics of what you need done. But building out entire production chains, hoping for potential buyers, WHILE, competing with given low-ball metrics (via the competition) could result in a failure of the business project.


[26-Aug-24 02:52 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
I'm not your project coordinator, btw.


[26-Aug-24 02:52 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Just suggestion. Applicable? Maybe not.


[26-Aug-24 02:52 PM] jcheung#0000
we have a market.


[26-Aug-24 02:52 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Hit it hard and fast.


[26-Aug-24 02:53 PM] jcheung#0000
you can't hit it hard and fast and also do small tests at the same time


[26-Aug-24 02:53 PM] jcheung#0000
which do you want us to do


[26-Aug-24 02:53 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Okay.... Sales....


[26-Aug-24 02:53 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
A market != sales.


[26-Aug-24 02:54 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
If you have sales, yes you can hit it hard and fast... But a general market? That's a vague term, isn't it?


[26-Aug-24 02:54 PM] jcheung#0000
the market is called ADI


[26-Aug-24 02:54 PM] jcheung#0000
secondary market is rise, though we haven't hashed out precise deals yet with him for surplus


[26-Aug-24 02:55 PM] jcheung#0000
i know for a fact that ASM production is something rise lacks


[26-Aug-24 02:55 PM] jcheung#0000
he's said it multiple times


[26-Aug-24 02:55 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
For reasons.


[26-Aug-24 02:56 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Hmm, try to incorporate production costs (repair + consumables) with a small margin. Maybe he'll be willing to accept that, or accept something along those lines, rather than pushing for a straight, break-even PPU, per upgrade kit.


[26-Aug-24 02:56 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
Idk what your metrics include, btw.


[26-Aug-24 02:56 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
<-- Doesn't need to know.


[26-Aug-24 02:57 PM] jcheung#0000
i don't have repair costs included, that is true.


[26-Aug-24 02:57 PM] jcheung#0000
consumables are factored though


[26-Aug-24 02:57 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000
It's valid for long-term stuff.


[26-Aug-24 09:10 PM] insulacrisium#0000
I totally skimmed this conversation, but if you guys have surplus AML output, I'm going to be buying ZR probably for a while, since I need some on hand for fuel tank production of my own.


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